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Thought That Counts

because heavy is the head that wears the crown





Need for Religion, or lack thereof



Wednesday, April 19, 2006


The way I see it, there are two sides to most religions: one that tells us how and where we came from, and the other that tells us how to live our lives. The first part doesn't actually matter much to the lives of anyone but answer-seeking scientists. The second part, I think, should be left to us mortals. I may not have faith in God but I do have enough faith in humans (despite being as cynical as I am) to think that we don't need our lives and lifestyles to be dictated by certain guidelines, rules, fears or selfish motives as are presented by every God-related thing.

You know one of the terms I've always despised is 'God-fearing'...it basically sums up the very disturbing mentality that people have formed over time: they do good, but not for the right reasons! That cannot really be called doing good. It's like me giving someone a birthday present just for the sake of it, but not actually being happy to give it. On a much larger scale, what I'm saying is that when you do something, it's important to do it for the right reasons! The whole God notion, in my opinion, is based on lies, whether any or a lot of good comes of it or not. I say we can accomplish just as much good - and good in the true sense, without lying to ourselves everyday of our lives.

I've met countless old ladies who've spent their entire lives in the undeserved satisfaction that [hide] they're 'good people' simply because they pray to God everyday, starve themselves on certain days, carry out certain religious (materialistic, might I add) ceremonies, donate money to some places every once in a while, yet badmouth every other person they come across for the silliest reasons; I don't call that being a good person at all. And the selfish motive behind any good they do is simply to move closer to salvation, or secure a spot for themselves in heaven; to have the assurance that many people will attend their death ceremony when they die.

As for the 'faith' aspect of it, I'm sure that if we researched it, we’d be able to find countless cases of people who have not taken action when they should have, simply because they believed God would do it for them; people who deserved punishment but never received it because some God was supposed to come after them (but of course, who checks up on those things?) So I say, we need to have more faith in ourselves and our fellow human beings and not rely on the power of any 'God', but on the power of love within us (please do not say that God = love!... that's just another religious motto that they use to make people believe in a distant God through means of something precious closer to home).

And I simply don't understand what people mean by 'I believe in God because I believe in myself'. Where is the 'self' in living your life literally by the Book (be it the Bible, Quran, Bhagwad Gita, or any other religious text)? Would you not be able to avoid the bad, let alone do others good, without reminding yourself about some imaginary force overlooking your every action? Why don't people try to form as strong a belief in and put as much effort daily into being good people at heart as they do into religion and their belief in God? A friend of mine said to me that I may have a "strong heart" that enables me to be a good person without believing in any God. But that's either an excuse for not willingly learning to be a good person, or a case of extreme cynicism. I mean if people really believe that the world needs religions and Gods to keep it in harmony and order, then there's hardly any hope for the world. How about we try placing a bit of this faith in our fellow human beings, in our parents, siblings, and friends? Every new generation that is born is born free of any such beliefs or faith and can easily grow up learning about the important things in life. Think about it, how many times have you actually been encouraged and taught by your elders to do good, to think good toward others, as opposed to simply going into a temple (or anywhere else) and praying to God?

Lastly, can you explain to me why religious people, especially yogi's (and the ones on TV!) stress so much that selflessness is so important and good? How is 'animal instinct', want, basically everything that is natural, a bad thing? By nature's own balance, where there are bad things in our nature, such as greed and malice, I'm pretty sure there must be at least enough good to balance the bad as well. Love, sympathy, and compassion for instance are quite instinctive, wouldn't you say?
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364 Comments:

Well, firstly let me introduce Ekta Wali with this post (she wrote it). She is something of a twin of mine (we share the same birthday). A friend from my old school (wassisname?), and a very good writer (as is evident).

I agree with most of the things you wrote, especially the role of god in making people do the right things and hence hollowing the conscience of any morality in itself. C'mon, we all know that the Yogi's on television are a big farce? If something like spiritual enlightenment could be reached through television shows, then we'd all be spiritual leaders by now. Those shows are only for above 50 somethings, and should be rated (A), because its only the adults who watch them. Really!

"And I simply don't understand what people mean by 'I believe in God because I believe in myself'."

I don't think Anubhav will take very nicely to that! :P It is a stupid logic, yes, but any amount of argument is futile against the fanatic! Try and argue with me that rock is not the almighty genre of music! :P

Good stuff! :)

By Blogger Aditya, at 10:49 PM  

I relate to some of the concerns raised here. I would reframe the opening premise though...

"there are two sides to most religions: one that tells us how and where we came from, and the other that tells us how to live our lives. The first part doesn't actually matter much to the lives of anyone but answer-seeking scientists. The second part, I think, should be left to us mortals."

These are good sentiments if, in fact, there is no God. But to begin with that assumption is to beg the question. If God DOES exist, then question # 1 would be extremely important, and not just to philosophers. Likewise question # 2. If a supremely powerful being watches over this universe and has a plan for it, as well as a purpose for which he made us, we would be living in a profound state of denial if we acted as if it "doesn't actually matter..."

I think this post describes some habits and rituals that pass for "religion" but are often divorced from a real relationship with Christ. They make me sick as well. For example, "I believe in God because I believe in myself" - this is nonsense. Likewise, "old ladies" who go through motions are also self-defeating...although people of all ages and genders are susceptible!

Finally, I guess I would challenge you to support the idea that humans are wise and good and can be trusted to discover the "important" things in life and pursue them. In reality, human evil has an overwhelming amount of empirical evidence in its support. When people begin choosing their own morality, they begin with small errors and end in atrocity.

I know that's a somber note to end on, but I think any philosophy that depends on "human goodness" as a central pillar is headed for failure. Talk to you later!

By Blogger Ariel, at 12:27 PM  

Ariel's point on human evil speaks to your question about selflessness. It (selflessness) is the antithesis of our nature. Our capacity for evil is centered on our love of self above others. The less we desire to raise ourselves above others the less evil we perpetrate against others. It's my selfishness that wouldn't want to give you a gift. Selflessness gives of myself to benefit someone else other than self.
Your desire to be a good person requires selflessness to accomplish good. Good is acted out among people. You can't just have good thinking. That would be just like the one you describe sitting around doing nothing to help someone. Good thinking is acted out in selfless actions. Giving up something of me to benefit someone besides me.
God placed evidence of His divine nature in everything He created. You are His creation. Evidence of His goodness, and love, and compassion, is found in your understanding that those traits are good. His beauty is evidenced in the beauty of nature all around us. All the good you see around you is the very real evidence of the God who created it all. When I look for truth this is what I see.
If we acknowledge an almighty God who created us, that means we are not the rulers of our own universe and we are subjects of something bigger.
I think you will find evidence of God better if you look for Him in the good, rather than condemning God because of humanities bad.
What you have rightfully condemned is humanity's efforts to reach God in there own power. You end up with something ugly.
The beauty is in the fact that God reached out to humanity and accomplished the work for us, because He knew our frailties and failings were too great to reach Him. So with true compassion and love and mercy He came near to us. He is not distant. He is near you and holding out His heart to yours and anyone who would turn to Him.

By Blogger unveiled, at 2:16 PM  

The whole belief of a god is somewhere between a rock and a hard place! You can't blindly trust something you've never sensed (feeling is not a sense). I agree that handing over the decision of 'right' and 'wrong' could have dire consequences, but isn't that why we have authorities? How much can your god do if a person decides to be evil. Will there be a spot of light shining on his head the moment he picks up a knife, which will compel him to 'see the light'? I doubt it!

As far as your god leaving evidences of his existence. There's nothing that cannot be explained by science. And to believe that we were created by god is being ignorant, rather than devoted. This is not the matrix, where everybody has to return to the source once their use is fulfilled (thanks for the analogy). I hate the idea that my life is not under my own control, and that whatever I do, my righteous goal has been pre-decided.

I believe in destiny, although I have a slightly different way of looking at it. One which is not driven by god, but my actions and deeds. I hold myself responsible for all I do wrong, and I give myself credit for what I do right. I don't know if its the right way to think, but its how I think. Now, rebuttles for me! :)

By Blogger Aditya, at 6:48 PM  

Let's suppose that there is a God. Do you not think it's a bit wrong to "make" human beings, to let them know that they are 'under' your control and to then 'guide' them on how to live the lives you gave them? Sounds a bit cruel if you ask me. If this supremely powerful being does exist, then he/she/whatever should have had the consideration to not include in us powerful tools of rebellion such as the mind, the senses, our feelings, desires, hopes, ambitions, greed, etc. According to your beliefs, all of these things, which are a part of us, are the causes of the tremendous amount of evil that exists in this world, correct? "Human evil", you call it. But do you see what's missing from the list? The good! Kindness, sympathy, compassion, companionship, generosity, and love! You are not allowed to exclude these traits, which we also possess, unless you yourself have never felt or experienced them. You have, haven't you.

These traits make decisions of morality and everything else much easier. What is it that stops me from causing harm to a person I hate? Actually, what is it that stops me from hating others in the first place? Lots of things: my mind, my way of thinking, my sense of understanding. All of these, we are not born with, but must learn in life. I learnt them from all the good people I've ever come across in my life. Not from some God whose presence I've never felt or sensed in any way other than as a dictating one in the form of religion.

That is how a system that "depends on 'human goodness'" is supposed to work. In the current state of things, however, no one even bothers to teach or set an example for others on how to be a good person. Sure, they may practice it themselves, or they may send you to Sunday school, or simply expect you to pray to God every now and then. But what we need for actual learning is demonstrations, as with learning anything. I don't see why you believe it impossible to overcome our "frailties and failings" in order to become kind people by learning from others and enhancing our good sides.

The same goes for the "errors and atrocities" that result from our actions. When animals are born with certain 'instincts', their instincts are to find food, find happiness, fulfill their own selfish needs. They don't exactly stop to consider the fact that they may be taking another animal's life or causing others harm to gain that food or happiness. But the important thing is that we, unlike animals, have minds, brains, consciences, and natural tendencies that equip us very well with the potential for developing proper morals, making the right decisions and differentiating between right and wrong. We learn. From our mistakes, from experiences, from guilt, from our feelings, and from others.

Basically, life teaches us. Not any religious text.

By Blogger Ekta, at 2:29 PM  

I'll try and respond to some of the concerns you mention, Aditya. You suggest that belief in God is based on "blind faith." And, while I understand the misconception, I need to re-emphasize the difference between reasoned belief and empirical "proof."

On the one hand, God gives us any number of reasons to believe that he exists. The historical evidence for Jesus's life, death and resurrection is one example. Faced with such evidence, some very bright minds (Mortimer Adler, C.S. Lewis, Isaac Newton...) have been convinced.

On the other hand, God doesn't try to make an open-shut case of his existence. There is a dimension of trust involved, because God does not present himself in mathmatical form (1 + 1 = God) for our perusal. He doesn't intend to.

On the issue of evil, and the elusive nature of morality, you suggest that "this is why we have authorities." I think you're on to something here. Authority is what we need to determine right and wrong. But human authorities will fail us every time.

With a merely human reference point, morality becomes a flavor of the month club. Hitler and Ghandi, Stalin and Mother Teresa - they were all "authorities." The authority we are forced to look to is ultimate and unchanging: Christ. Without the moral standards revealed by God, good and evil are anybody's guess.

Finally, Aditya, I'd like to encourage you to commit some more time to your Science reading. :) One of the most startling developments in the scientific community over the last decade or so has been the utter inability of Science to provide "all the explanations."

A book by John Horgan, The Undiscovered Mind, would be a good place to start. (Horgan is an atheist, but he painstakingly documents some of the numerous mysteries that the scientific disciplines simply cannot approach.)

The choice we must make is not, as you suggest, between "ignorance and devotion." Rather, the choice is between faith in methods and matter and faith in God. Does it take a degree of trust to believe in Christ? Yes. But, as empirical, scientific research is revealing - it takes an equal or greater amount of faith to believe that the world makes sense apart from him.

By Blogger Ariel, at 3:54 PM  

Ekta, I have some brief thoughts on what you said...

If I understand your first several paragraphs correctly, what you are objecting to is the fact that we, as humans, have the ability to make real, moral choices - but also (as I argue) are told that God is ultimately in control.

Part of me understands the problem. How come God gives us the option of committing evil?

Ultimately, we don't know why. But we can find parallels to help. For example, I have a very high degree of influence in my little son's life. I could even say that, in a sense, I am all powerful. Nevertheless, he has choices to make every day. Will he obey? Will he smile or scream? (As he gets older, the choices will become more profound!)

I'm aware that there's a kind of coercive obedience I could force out of my son. But it would be a morally meaningless conformity, and I don't think it would warm my heart.

Likewise, God didn't want an earth of moral robots, programmed to do the right thing. He wanted children and friends who would choose to love him and obey.

"Basically, life teaches us. Not any religious text."

I merely need to point out something here. If we adopt this way of doing things, then anything is OK. Morality is completely personal and therefore completely arbitrary and non-binding. In other words (as I implied in response to Aditya's thoughts) we cannot condemn a Hitler anymore than we can praise a Mother Teresa.

By Blogger Ariel, at 4:08 PM  

Wasn't it only a few decades ago when man fathomed that he couldn't fly? And that DaVinci's drawings of a flying machine were termed as a 'far fetched imagination'? The mind is evolving, and so is the knowledge to go with it. We know it ourselves, that things like time travel are not out of reach. We just lack the technological prowess right now. It'll be very much possible in the future.

Now, if we can go back in time and correct mistakes, or change history itself, won't that throw a lot of things out of balance? That give a whole new meaning for 'morality', since a good human being can go back and make things good, while a wrong one can do the opposite. If its not already, won't this world be a little out of control of your god?

That's a bad point to fight about anyway, but seriously. Science is evolving, and many things which the bright minds of the past credited to god, have been proven by science to be methodical and real course of events. If your god created us, are you trying to say that the whole deal with evolution is a farce?

You point out contrasts in human beings with names such as Stalin and Teresa, and they were authority figures. I'd like to interject here. Stalin was an authority figure, who's authority people were forced to follow. They did not want to follow him! He ruled, and I repeat, ruled, giving his intentions as the intentions of the people. Hitler was a brilliant marketing person. He sold his ideas so well that people actually believed that they were in good hands. I'm sure there were number of people under them who weren't happy with him either, and the way he killed people and caused destruction. Why did they feel that? Out of godly intervention, or human compassion?

I'm going to agree with Ekta here. Why are you leaving out the good deeds that man does? Anything good that one does, and the believers attribute it to godly intervention. Anything wrong, and its either the human's fault, or Satan's influence. Why don't you see human's as beings with a mind of their own? The human mind is one of the most complicated things on earth, and the day its understood will be the day when whatever belief/doubt in god's existence there is, will slowly begin to lift, since we'll understand what drives humans to do what they do.

"God didn't want an earth of moral robots, programmed to do the right thing. He wanted children and friends who would choose to love him and obey."

Why? Is he some insecure being who wants to be popular? Why did he create human beings at all? What gives him such powers? If he is so good, then why does he let his children (read: us) live in misery? Why can't he help them himself, because obviously his children aren't (and by this I mean the poor people on the streets). How hard will it be for him to show himself and remove all doubt...? If he wants to be loved, is there a better way than to finally show himself? Whats the reason for his existence? Who created him? Unless he is beyond all reason (which is illogical to think of), there will be an answer to all those, and convincing ones. Its not mere believers who can find them (answers), but researchers who dedicate the hours to finally solve the mystery.

So what kicks is god getting out of seeing his children hunting for him, and not finding him? He intends to jump in one day and shout, "Gotchya!!"?

By Blogger Aditya, at 9:34 PM  

In addition to the above, from my side:
I think another very important question that arises here is: what are you proposing is the reason for our existence? Or according to your beliefs, our creation?

What you've said goes against everything I thought God stood for. I'd never really considered the idea that God created us entirely for his own purposes, simply because "he wanted children who would love and obey him". I'd always understood that it was supposed to be out His kindness and generosity that He chose to give us life. Which is why I am faced with the confusion of why give us life, only to confine the way we live it?

Ariel, I was very pleased with everything you said about the way your choose to raise your son. But tell me. Why did you have a child in the first place? Was it so that you could have control of his life (even if he willingly gives it) and have him obey you? Or was so that he may one day have control of his own life while being grateful to you for giving him one? Were you not happy to be able to do that for him, to give him a life and then be satisfied in his happiness rather than control the way he lives it (beyond his dependent childhood)? Why should God's views on creation be contrary?

If God does indeed exist, then I have no objection to His making use of His powers to keep the world in peace and harmony. But that has hardly been the case. I can think of many evils that have been committed in the name of God. But any good that has been done in the name of God should not even be considered good, because it didn't come from the heart. Clearly, any good that exists in the world, any good that should be classified as good, has come from us humans, and this truth cannot be realized by the masses as long as we keep giving 'Godly intervention' all the credit for it!

Lastly, we complicate and generalize things too much. If the Bible (in Ariel's case) did not tell you that the seven sins (pride, envy, gluttony, lust, anger, greed, and sloth) were sins, would you not come to that realization yourself? How did you come to realize that the Bible was to be trusted? Obviously, it took some of your own judgement to decide that it was trustworthy. Whether we realize it or not, I'm sure the final decision for all our actions is made by us, not the rules and not God. After all, even if you say that you trust Christ more than yourself, it comes down to the fact that you made the decision to trust that Him. And you, being a human, get credit for that, as you do for every good (and bad) thing you follow it up with.

As for what you said about Hitler and morality being personal. We are not trying to figure out a way to (once again) control the morality of every person on the planet. All we need to be concerned with is ourselves. Deal with our own personal relations and try to be good human beings to best of our understanding. But in Hitler's case, yes we can condemn him. Just because it is or isn't written on paper doesn't mean that we can't condemn him for his crimes. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that killing the masses is wrong. And even if it does, we are evolving as well as technology as Aditya said. At some point, we will be 'geniuses' who will be smart enough to decide that killing that wrong, that is if we aren't already! It was unfortunate (understatement) that Hitler himself was an authority figure, but today (and today is most important) we do have proper authorities that prevent that sort of thing. And when authorites fail us, it will once again be us humans who set things right.

By Blogger Ekta, at 11:00 PM  

Alot has been said since I was here.
If this universe was created by a Supreme God from the tiniest particle, the depths of the sea, the farthest reaches of the heavens, the magnificent flow of all of nature, the intricate design of it all, not to mention the complexity of the human, body, soul, and spirit, it is unfathomalble to think that something that was created by such amazing wisdom and knowledge would image that they could do it better. A God that could create all this would certainly have to be far and above the complete comprehension of the creation. It's this kind of humble thinking that I come to in questions of God.

Aditya, when we are speaking in questions of God, who exists in the spiritual realm, how can you even have the disscussion if you will limit it to the senses (I assume you are referring to, taste, touch, see, and smell.) If that is where it is limited then, we might as well not have the discussion at all. I understand you are not going to just take someones emotional experience as gospel, but when speaking of spiritual issues it goes beyond the physical senses.
There's no science involved in God's character being revealed through how I experience the world He created. Ekta's question, " Why did you have your child?" is good. I am a mother of four. I asked myself that question years ago in seeking to understand God more fully. God likens himself to a father and we His children as you know. So in asking why did God create us, I asked why did I have my own children. I beleive He gave us these analogies of Himself in order to reveal Himself to us more clearly.
So I asked myself was it for my childrens sake that I had them? That didn't make sense because they didn't exist before I had them. They wouldn't know they never existed. In thinking it through I had them for my sake. To have someone to give my love to, to be in relationship with. This answers for me my question of why God created us. For His sake. He is love, wether you want me to say it or not, and so what is love if it is not expressed beyond oneself? I didn't have my childdren out of some needy place of needing to be loved by someone (although you will find people who do that), but to give love to someone, because I am created in the image of my Creator, I have a capacity to love, and like Him I desire to express it beyond myself.
I don't get joy from my children's obedience just for the sake of obedience. I am not on a power trip, nor is God. Again, you will find people that have power issues with there children. I take joy in their well being, so as far as there obedience brings about their well being, I am happy with it.
I have no garantee of their love and obedience. I can train them in all that is good and right, yet they can choose to walk through life however they will. I as their authority, and having more knowledge and understanding by way of experience than they, know what will be good for them more than they do. I know of hardships from choices they are free to make. I see my God here. You describe a controlling God. I experience my God in freedom. He knows what's good for me, what will hurt me and like a good parent tells me what those things are. Yet, I am free to choose what I will do.
I want to have relationship with my children because I love them with a powerful love. As my daughter approaches 18 next year, I am overjoyed with the relationship I have with her. We have dealt in years past with the issue of her doing and saying things because she thinks that's what I want to hear or see. I think she finally understands that I want to relate with who she really is, not some masked person she plays to me. I want a real relationship with her. I love her, I love who she is. It blesses my heart when I see her doing good. I love to hang out with her. I am excited to see the life she wiil live as she steps out on her own.
This is the evidence of God I see in my world that science can't touch. I read in the Bible about God being my father but I experience that truth in connecting how I feel about my children and why I had them, and what I want to have with them.
I don't put controls on them because I have some power trip, I do it because I want good for them, I want to protect them. We are not robots of God, we are children deeply and passionatly loved. It takes a choice on your part to beleive that. He answers all my questions from that jumping off point.

By Blogger unveiled, at 1:38 PM  

When I get involved in conversations like this, I often wish the talk was going on in "real time" in a coffee shop somewhere. It's harder to track the various streams of thought online, and these talks are always better face to face. Oh well... lifting a mug of coffee in my own apartment, here goes. :)

Aditya, I'm curious what evidence you would offer for the "evolving" of our minds. How can you empirically prove that humankind's "evolving" will solve every problem facing the world? Or that one day we will understand ourselves completely in biological terms? This remains an issue of faith.

I realize I need to clarify that I don't deny that humans have minds, that our minds are complex, and that we are capable of "good" actions. As well, I don't claim that every instance of compassion or mercy is a result of God coercively acting. Rather, I emphasize human evil because evil is the problem we face. Evil is the urgent issue, not only for its destructiveness, but for its pervasiveness.

I'd go one step further and ask: How do you explain the existence of this category we're talking about, "Evil?" And what about the idea of "Good?" Without the existence of God, I see no explanation for the moral sensibilities we all possess - and violate.

Why? Is he some insecure being who wants to be popular? Why did he create human beings at all? What gives him such powers?

The short answer to this question is that for God, a being who is glorious and self-sufficient, it is a mercy for him to create at all. If there is a conflict of interest, the issue lies with us. I say it's good to be alive.

If he wants to be loved, is there a better way than to finally show himself?

Jesus Christ is the visible "message" that God sent to earth. His life is a historical reality that continues to communicate today. However, even in Jesus' day, the message was not coercive. God does not make friends by force, and this is still true. Because he wants willing followers, he accepts the reality that not all will follow him willingly.

Whats the reason for his existence? Who created him?

1) God is the reason for God's existence. 2) No one. :)

This is part of what it means for God to be God.

By Blogger Ariel, at 7:42 PM  

What you've said goes against everything I thought God stood for. I'd never really considered the idea that God created us entirely for his own purposes...

Ekta, you're not the first person who has felt this. However, the picture changes when we consider who God is, what Christ is like. God is good - in a positive, vivid, satisfying sense. When Jesus lived on earth, the crowds were amazed, not only at his teaching, but at his mercy, his kindness, his authority, his power. And Jesus was God in human form.

When a God like this creates people "for his own purposes," people he loves, but does not need, it is hardly a selfish thing. Rather, it is a gift to us. All the more so because God does not force us to know him, but invites us.

It would be cruel for me to "create" my son so that I could impose my purposes upon his life. However, I am not God: not glorious, perfectly satisying, good. What is an act of mercy in God would be an act of cruelty in me, or in any of us.

If God does indeed exist, then I have no objection to His making use of His powers to keep the world in peace and harmony. But that has hardly been the case...

I'm afraid that the problem you find with God's sovereignty here is largely the result of the "freedom" you wanted for humans earlier. :) God has given us the ability to make decisions, and with this freedom comes the reality of evil. It is hard to blame God for what humans freely choose. The only question that can be asked is, "Why did God make a world with free creatures instead of robots, knowing this would happen?" I don't think this is a question we are in a position to answer.

Clearly, any good that exists in the world, any good that should be classified as good, has come from us humans, and this truth cannot be realized by the masses as long as we keep giving 'Godly intervention' all the credit for it!

If God created us, then we owe not only our lives to him, but also any good thing that we accomplish. God rewards those who do good - but the fact that we even have an idea of good must be attributed to Christ! In other words, we may purchase some handsome goods with the money God puts in our hands, but the currency of grace is always his.

If the Bible did not tell you that the seven sins (pride, envy, gluttony, lust, anger, greed, and sloth) were sins, would you not come to that realization yourself?

It's worth noting that the Bible identifies far more than seven sins. In fact, Christ describes sin as being pervasive, not only in my actions but in my thoughts. As long as I am divorced from God, my life is morally vacuous. Only when I come to believe in Christ am I capable of doing good. And no, this is not a realization I would have come to apart from the Bible.

Therefore, I have to disagree with your idea that "the final decision for all our actions is made by us, not the rules and not God." Morally, God calls the shots. We humans are very sophisticated in our sinning.

All we need to be concerned with is ourselves. Deal with our own personal relations and try to be good human beings to best of our understanding.

Unfortunately, every "private" action has repercussions. Without revelation from God (i.e., the Bible), "good" is up for grabs. On a "personal" level, sexual assault may be "good" for the rapist. And who will tell him he is wrong? Surely not Darwin? One person's good is another's destruction.

If "killing the masses" is wrong, why is abortion so popular? If we have "figured out" that genocide is evil, why are there mass graves in Sudan and Cambodia, being filled as we speak?

Is this really an "evolutionary" issue? Or is it a moral one?

By Blogger Ariel, at 8:14 PM  

You can't control 'beliefs' .. you can't rationalise them nor can you explain them. For ex. let's say a person is superstitious that if they perform a certain ritual it'll bring them good luck and success in their work .. but what actually is happening is that the person now feels 'confident' about doing well now.. it's really a state of mind and hence the person performs well.
There cannot be a good or a bad person.. be it teresa or stalin.. every person has both elements but distributed in a certain proportion.

The one thing i agree is that our actions or 'karma' as we know it are important.. and that we are the navigators of our own lives.

By Blogger Shikha Choudhury, at 1:07 AM  

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A ship doesn't travel far in a calm sea.
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Welcome thy neighbor into thy fallout shelter. He'll come in handy if you run out of food.
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Reasonable thinking boils down to the interpretation on the basis of a concept we cannot fling off.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:28 AM  

It is a good thing for an uneducated man to read books of quotations.
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To forget is human, to forgive divine.
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It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job; it's a depression when you lose yours.
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How many Frenchmen does it take to defend France? Don't know, never been tried
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A day for firm decisions! Or is it?
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:21 PM  

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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:07 PM  

Once you've tried to change the world you find it's a whole bunch easier to change your mind.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:00 PM  

My notion of a wife at forty is that a man should be able to change her, like a bank note, for two twenties.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:27 PM  

I can resist everything except temptation.
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Coward: one who, in a perilous emergency, thinks with his legs.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:51 PM  

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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:50 PM  

No man would listen to you talk if he didn't know it was his turn next.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:50 AM  

Tact is the ability to describe others as they see themselves.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:59 AM  

Try to get all of your posthumous medals in advance.
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Hoare's Law of Large Problems: Inside every large problem is a small problem struggling to get out.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:58 AM  

Success is a state of mind. If you want success, start thinking of yourself as a success.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:54 AM  

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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:03 AM  

It's not a question of happiness, it's a requirement. Consider the alternative.
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Weiler's Law: Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:05 AM  

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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:39 AM  

Smile, it's better than a poke in the eye.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:04 PM  

The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut by the scythe.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:29 PM  

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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:56 PM  

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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:59 PM  

Maybe this world is another planet's Hell.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:15 PM  

Smile, it's better than a poke in the eye.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:42 PM  

I've never been this old in my entire life.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:44 PM  

Some day my boat will come in, and with my luck I'll be at the airport.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:01 PM  

Man usually avoids attributing cleverness to somebody else -- unless it is an enemy.
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When ideas fail, words come in very handy.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:46 AM  

Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:32 AM  

Sloppy thinking only gets worse with decapitation.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:30 AM  

"I hear that you drop some money in Stocks. Were you a bull or a bear?" "Neither, just a plain simple ass."
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:55 AM  

Let me shake your hand!
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:11 AM  

What does not destroy me, makes me stronger.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:36 AM  

Even if you aren't making money at your job, but doing something you love to do, you are a true success.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:11 AM  

He loses his thanks who promises and delays.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:08 AM  

Don't die until you're dead.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:49 PM  

I drink to make other people interesting.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:54 PM  

A beggar walked up to a well-dressed woman shopping on Rodeo Drive and said, "I haven't eaten anything for days." She looked at him and said, "God, I wish I had your willpower."
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:58 PM  

What do you call a woman who has lost 95% of her intelligence? Divorced.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:04 PM  

I don't think anyone should write their autobiography until after they're dead.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:53 PM  

Sloppy, raggedy-assed old life. I love it. I never want to die.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:27 PM  

Even a blind pig in a blizzard finds an acorn once in a while.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:40 PM  

The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:20 AM  

The errors of great men are venerable because they are more fruitful than the truths of little men.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:17 AM  

Bravery and stupidity go hand in hand.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:41 AM  

A friend is someone who knows all about you and and still likes you.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:08 AM  

The key to heaven's gate cannot be duplicated.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:34 AM  

The church saves sinners, but science seeks to stop their manufacture.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:52 AM  

Trust everybody, but cut the cards.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:56 AM  

I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:38 AM  

Mistakes are the portals of discovery.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:58 AM  

Thank you for all you�ve done.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:31 AM  

Women first want to find out what is in your wallet, and second what is in your pants.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:32 AM  

The best inheritance a parent can give to his children is a few minutes of their time each day.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:58 PM  

Life is a tragedy for those who feel, and a comedy for those who think, and a docudrama with ugly actors for those who film docudramas.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:25 PM  

Dost thou love life? Then do not squander time, for that's the stuff life is made of.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:50 PM  

Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:09 PM  

Cox's Philosophy: Life's a bitch, and then you die.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:19 PM  

Death and taxes may always be with us, but death at least doesn't get any worse.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:27 AM  

There is no security on this earth; there is only opportunity.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:35 PM  

ALGEBRA: A weapon of math destruction.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:42 PM  

If you optimize everything, you will always be unhappy.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:07 PM  

On the whole, human beings want to be good -- but not too good and not quite all the time.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:38 PM  

Thanks. Thank you. Thanks a lot.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:37 PM  

All the world's a stage and most of us are desperately unrehearsed.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:14 PM  

Talkers are no good doers.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:46 PM  

Boren's Laws: (1) When in charge, ponder. (2) When in trouble, delegate. (3) When in doubt, mumble.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:24 PM  

The fact that man knows right from wrong proves his intellectual superiority to other creatures; but the fact that he can do wrong proves his moral inferiority to any creature that cannot.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:57 PM  

By doing just a little every day, you can gradually let the task completely overwhelm you.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:42 AM  

Luck can't last a lifetime unless you die young.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:10 AM  

How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a weary world.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:20 AM  

Marriage is a 3-ring circus: Engagement Ring, Wedding Ring, Suffering.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:48 AM  

The errors of great men are venerable because they are more fruitful than the truths of little men.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:14 AM  

Love many, trust few, and always paddle your own canoe.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:24 AM  

The Golden Rule: whoever has the gold makes the rules.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:45 AM  

"City morgue, you kill em, we chill em!" "City morgue, you stab em we slab em!"
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:46 AM  

Bigamy is having one wife too many. Monogamy is the same.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:46 AM  

Bad men live that they may eat and drink, whereas good men eat and drink that they may live.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:02 PM  

As the fly bangs against the window attempting freedom while the door stands open, so we bang against death ignoring heaven.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:06 PM  

Children are unpredictable. You never know what inconsistency they're going to catch you in next.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:59 PM  

Don't fear change -- embrace it.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:01 PM  

I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:16 PM  

You can run with the big dogs or sit on the porch and bark.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:05 PM  

Talking much about oneself can also be a means to conceal oneself.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:42 PM  

Life is but a dream, a grotesque and foolish dream.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:14 PM  

The longest sentence known to man: "I do."
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:35 PM  

Strategy: A long-range plan whose merit cannot be evaluated until sometime after those creating it have left the organization.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:25 AM  

You can't carve your way to success without cutting remarks.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:42 AM  

Never try to out-stubborn a cat.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:30 AM  

If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of car payments.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:35 AM  

He who hesitates is probably smart... or maybe stapled to the floor.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:49 AM  

We have met the enemy, and he is us.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:49 AM  

Nothing very good or very bad lasts very long.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:00 AM  

The one-eyed man thanks God only when he sees a man blind in both eyes.
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I am not afraid of tomorrow, for I have seen yesterday and I love today.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:15 PM  

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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:20 PM  

Live to win, dare to fail.
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Women like silent men. They think they're listening.
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I married Miss Right.
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Figure it out. Work a lifetime to pay off a house. You finally own it and there's no one to live in it.
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Live so that your friends can defend you but never have to.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:57 PM  

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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:02 AM  

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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:57 AM  

While having never invented a sin, I'm trying to perfect several.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:29 PM  

A man is in love when something in his head, something in his and chest and something in his pants react to a certain woman.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:46 PM  

Success is like a fart -- only your own smells nice.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:43 PM  

Much obliged.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:47 PM  

By means of shrewd lies, unremittingly repeated, it is possible to make people believe that heaven is hell -- and hell heaven. The greater the lie, the more readily it will be believed.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:10 PM  

Hypocrisy is the vaseline of social intercourse.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:42 PM  

I wouldn't mind dying -- it's that business of having to stay dead that scares the shit out of me.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:05 PM  

Example is not the main thing in influencing others. It is the only thing.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:41 PM  

A husband is what's left of the lover after the nerve has been extracted.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:49 AM  

Black, white, brown, yellow or even red, we piss with our pants down, and go naked to bed.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:55 AM  

There's always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat, plausible, and wrong.
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:35 AM  

Why is it that nobody understands me and everybody likes me?
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By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:51 AM  



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